A set of leaked minutes, said to transcribe a teleconference held on 2 May 2025 between imprisoned PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan and senior figures from the movement, portrays the most far-reaching rhetorical turn in decades: a call to formally dissolve the PKK, renounce the nation-state project, and pursue what Öcalan describes as a democratic union rooted in law, electoral politics, and local self-government. The document, circulated online in recent days, also depicts a carefully managed three-corner relationship connecting İmralı, elements of the Turkish state, and Qandil—while extending into Rojava—complete with warnings about spoilers and a cautionary reference to Ukraine and Gaza.
The minutes open with Öcalan declaring “my final speech as founding general president,” insisting the move is his personal initiative, “not an imposition,” and casting the moment as a historical threshold. He argues that “establishing a Democratic Republic is more valuable than establishing a Kurdistan,” says classical national-liberation models and “real socialism” failed as principles, and stakes out a future in which socialism cannot be built through violence. In his sequencing, the PKK brand must be retired first to unlock a channel “no one easily opens with the PKK,” followed by a leader-supervised, months-long disarmament window conditioned on legal guarantees for democratic political participation. He repeatedly distinguishes a “norm state” he engages from “extra-norm” elements that could sabotage the process, warning that spoilers exist both inside the state and within the movement.
A significant portion of the exchange centers on Ilham Ahmed and Rojava. Ahmed conveys loyalty and worries that Turkish pressure obstructs an understanding with Damascus. Öcalan responds with a striking formula: external borders and customs should be handed to the Syrian state, while Kurdish-led structures manage internal affairs through local democracy under a democratic constitution that would remove the rationale for arms. He says he will raise Rojava’s concerns with Turkish authorities, urges contacts with Ahmad (Farouk) Sharaa’s circle, and instructs cadres to deepen dialogue with Iran and Iraq, including a democratic-negotiation lane with PJAK. He then parks the Syria file for a separate, direct talk with Ahmed, signaling he intends to own the most sensitive track.
The minutes portray Sabri Ok recounting a decade of close-quarters war and insisting that laying down arms is untenable without reciprocal steps, while Remzi Kartal relays strong popular support for Öcalan’s call and anxiety about state policy. When Ok floats a multi-vector approach—cultivating ties with outside powers—Öcalan issues a Gaza–Ukraine warning: many pledged support there, he says, only to leave them exposed, and the movement must calculate consequences and rely on lawful politics and self-organization, not on fickle patrons. He adds that he is speaking with the state, not “those in power” or parties, and points to “Hakan” as proof of a channel, underscoring that his interlocutor is institutional, not electoral.
Threaded through is a portrait of Öcalan re-asserting command. He controls turn-taking, cuts in to redirect, postpones lines of discussion, and frames every step as his to authorize. He scolds repeatedly—calling Qandil’s rhetoric “demagogy,” telling cadres “don’t speak like wretches,” and insisting “no one can impose anything on me—neither you nor the state.” He reminds the room of his centrality—“For 50 years I’ve kept Qandil and those in Syria alive”—questions military performance, and warns against expecting “puppet leadership.” At one heated moment he says that without solutions “this year is a year of disintegration” for Turkey, a line likely intended as both pressure and prognosis. He also claims, provocatively, “I brought [MHP leader Devlet] Bahçeli to this line,” casting recent Turkish rhetoric as potentially compatible with his legal-political track if anchored inside the state.
On mechanics, the minutes sketch a tight timetable. Öcalan urges that a dissolution congress not be dragged out and hints at a two-to-three-month supervision window for demobilization, while conceding that “bombing may continue” and ordering cadres to protect themselves without returning to an offensive posture, because “democratic struggle is stronger than weapons.” Earlier versions of the notes circulating among activists—themselves unverified—add that two senior women figures, Pervin and Derya, were to meet the next day with a Turkish official identified by initials as “İ.K.” (widely read as İbrahim Kalın), and that Öcalan wanted a direct conversation with the Barzani camp. None of those meetings can be confirmed from the text alone.
The political theory underpinning his timing is blunt. He asserts that the Lausanne-century order has run out, that Syria and Iraq’s near-collapse has emptied Sykes–Picot and related arrangements of practical force, and that Turkey faces a serious constitutional question that should be settled by democratization within the state, not against it. He repeats that dissolution first, law next is the only sequence that lowers the negotiation cost for Ankara, and he instructs his interlocutors to change themselves—organizationally and culturally—rather than demanding the state change first.
The result is a document that reads like both manifesto and command briefing. Its tone is not consultative. Even when Öcalan gestures to pluralism—praising the women’s movement’s discipline after Songül Çelik asks about duties—he speaks from a lectern, issues assignments, and reserves the right to settle accounts with those he deems obstructive, whether in Qandil or in Iraqi Kurdistan. His pledge that he does not want anyone to die and his insistence on law over force are delivered in the same key: orders, not proposals.
If authentic, the minutes capture Öcalan simultaneously tightening personal control and attempting to script an off-ramp from insurgency: retire the PKK label, supervise a conditional disarmament, and re-anchor Kurdish aspirations in a Democratic Union/Democratic Republic idiom tied to legal guarantees and local administration.
Minutes of the Öcalan–PKK teleconference
Öcalan:
I send my greetings to everyone. I will be making my final speech in my capacity as the Founding General President of the PKK.
I define and state that this component is the preparatory committee of the Union of Democratic Communes. Including our sympathizers, I begin by stating that everyone in our circles—and even rival forces—should carefully evaluate this as a historic initiative, and that important duties also fall to them. All sides should take this into account.
In a moment I will take your questions. What are the comrades saying? What are their expectations? I want to hear these and your questions. I said that Bahçeli’s historic call should not be left hanging. I said I would resolve this problem with the state on the basis of democratization. When I first came to İmralı, I expressed this then as a debt of honor. The latest call was made on my personal initiative. I have regarded this last opportunity as a propitious chance. I prepared it and have brought it to this point. It should be known that there is absolutely no imposition here.
Today’s meeting is a new threshold. It is the crossing of an important, historic threshold. I hope it will be treated as such. I believe my four-point communiqué has reached you. Overcoming this threshold is a unilateral declaration of good will. For now, let me say this much. If you wish, I can take your questions now. You may state your issues. Yes, Sabri…
Sabri Ok:
First, on behalf of the leadership, we offer our respects. We know our Leader has undertaken a huge responsibility with incredible focus. We salute your great efforts for the peoples. We too are trying to focus and understand. I would like to give a bit of information.
Öcalan:
Yes, do you have questions? What are your questions?
Comrade Sabri:
With your permission, I would like to give a bit of information. In the last 10 years we have waged an intense war. It was a hand-to-hand war. We were in clashes even at distances of 50 meters, 100 meters. We are still in the same position and intertwined with the Turkish state. We responded to our Leader’s call with a ceasefire. But the tone has not changed; the attacks continue.
The President:
(interrupting) Yes, I understand this. It is fully understood. I will respond to these. Is there another question? Remzi, do you have one?
Remzi Kartal:
We convey our respects on behalf of the people and the European organization. Support for your call reached its peak in the Newroz in Europe. There is trust in and participation in your call. However, in building a democratic society we still have shortcomings and inadequacies. The people are giving great support to your steps. There are public concerns about the state’s policies.
Öcalan
All right, understood. Ilham, do you have anything to say?
Ilham Ahmed:
We offer our greetings and respects. I want to convey Rojava’s loyalty to you. Your views on northern Syria have reached us. We would also like to hear from you here.
Öcalan:
Did my letter reach you? Is there anyone who objects? Anyone opposed?
Ilham Ahmed:
No, President, there is no one who opposes. But we have doubts about the Ahmad Sharaa administration. We have doubts about Turkey’s approach.
(In Kurdish: “No one stands against, my President. Everyone is with your call. But there are doubts about Ahmad Sharaa’s leadership. There are also doubts about Turkey’s stances toward us.”)
Abdullah Öcalan asked the Rojava administration to hand over borders and customs to Damascus
Öcalan:
My call is important. Let’s speak plainly. We have said everything we have and expressed everything. The new period is a period of democracy. In the new period there are no states. We will preserve the unity of a democratic Syria. The PYD is the Democratic Union Party. Under this name you have built a great movement. I was following you. Local democracy is very important. Neither the Syrian state nor the Sharaa administration can do this. Now Ahmad Sharaa represents Syria. I believe he too will understand this new program of ours. We want a democratic constitution. If the country becomes democratic, there will be no need for arms. If there is democracy, arms will not be a cause of enmity either. The external borders and customs should be handed over to the state. You should run your own internal affairs. I will return to this topic later. For now, that is enough.
Do other comrades have questions? There is a woman comrade. PAJK? Do you have questions?
Dılar Sivas (Songül Çelik):
I am joining from the European women’s movement, President. First, greetings from all the women comrades. I share the comrades’ questions. Also, what duties fall to us in this process?..
Öcalan:
(The President tried to recall who the comrade was. Comrade Sabri interjected, “Dılar from Sivas, she also stayed beside you.” The President said “All right,” and immediately began to speak.)
In other words, there is nothing odd or abnormal. No objections. Then it’s settled—understood. What I take as essential is this: if there are questions and issues, I want to hear them.
With the disintegration of the Syrian state there is a new situation. The situation involving both Iran and Iraq has surpassed Qasr-i Shirin. Syria and Iraq have almost collapsed. There is the Mosul Agreement made 100 years ago. It is said to have secret clauses; we cannot know. It is also said that the Sykes–Picot Agreement depended on the survival of the regimes I mentioned. We see what those states are like now. They have disappeared. As for Lausanne, its validity is 100 years. We even celebrated that recently. Therefore there is a new situation. The situation in Iran, Syria and Iraq has changed along with the existing Sykes–Picot order. There is a new situation. Turkey also has a serious constitutional problem.
Öcalan: I am dissolving the PKK for two reasons
We set out with the PKK for an independent Kurdistan. In our Party’s program, the backbone article was an independent Kurdistan. I led this. Now we are changing this and giving it up. As stated in the communiqué you received, I am making this decision for two reasons. First: real socialism had an influence on us. Now, in a place where the collapse of real socialism has occurred, I have examined the right of nations to self-determination and statist national-liberation approaches. I realized this could not be a principle. After the 1990s the PKK repeated itself excessively. As Özal said, “a movement that has outlived its time.” Özal’s initiative actually created an opportunity to resolve this issue in a way. But extra-norm forces within the state and within the PKK moved, and that initiative was sabotaged. They sabotaged it in a snap, and the effort came to nothing.
Minutes of the teleconference Abdullah Öcalan held with PKK cadres…
The second reason: since the 1990s—more than 30 years—this wheel has turned in a lose-lose fashion. Özal failed. We, too, could not stop this. Whatever anyone says, I take responsibility and I am turning back from the nation-state aim. Instead of a nation-state, there can be a democratic nation and democratic society based on socialism. I advocate these views not only for Turkey but for the whole world. The Democratic Society in my call is a global approach and the result of such deep engagement. We will deepen this in later discussions. You will read and evaluate the perspectives as well. There is more to come; you will read it.
I am essentially completing what has been done de facto. We are now formalizing the PKK’s dissolution. At one point I said, “I am resigning from this PKK.” You will remember.
Sabri Ok:
Yes, President. You said so during the 6th Congress process.
Öcalan: As a socialist, I reject socialism based on violence and war
Öcalan:
Yes, I submitted my resignation at that congress. One of the reasons the PKK has reached its natural end is that it was born under the conditions of harsh denial of the Kurds. But the conditions of denial have ended. It should be known that the PKK stopped the denial and played its role. On this basis, it has completed its lifespan. Even Demirel said, “I recognize the Kurdish reality.” The PKK cannot develop socialism. Because the PKK could not develop democracy within itself, nor could it organize the outside sufficiently.
The PKK’s aim was a nation-state. It aimed to achieve its strategy by means of arms. But with the change we have made in the nation-state and national liberation approach, this is no longer necessary. I say this as a socialist: I reject a socialism based on violence and war. I do not agree with Mao’s saying “the road of revolution passes through the barrel of a gun”; I find it wrong. I say that socialism can only be built on a peaceful and democratic ground. No other path is possible. As a matter of principle, socialism cannot be built through violence. This is a principle.
As for the related issue, you may say: “All right, you have taken this weapon from our hands as a tool. There are so many attacks. We are being hit. There are assaults. How can we make such a decision? What will become of us?” You are right on this matter. You may ask what will replace it. Here is what I will say in response: democratic politics and the legal dimension are extremely important, and we will develop them.
Many comrades will come to Turkey. The law must resolve this. We are talking about a legal dimension. It may not be immediate, but it will be done through legal arrangements.
Let me read this from the text: (The President read a paragraph from the relevant part of the perspective he sent to the movement.)
Our third article: The state is closed to dialogue and negotiations with the PKK. This is not an absolute precondition. But for a path that will lead to negotiations and healthy dialogue, the PKK must be removed from the equation. For this reason, dissolution will be the opening of this lock and the opening of the road to dialogue. The public also has the same sensitivity. No one can easily negotiate with the PKK.
I have set out the perspective in detail in Article 4 as well. I am reading this here. (The President read the relevant article of the text.)
Öcalan: There are those within both the PKK and the state who want to sabotage the process
The right to democratic politics must be recognized by law. The paths must be open. Note that the emergence of these new conditions depends on dissolution. I believe you will succeed in this. I have no doubt. It is said that steps will be taken after the dissolution congress. On behalf of the state, the “norm” powers say yes. But extra-norm forces may sabotage; you must take precautions.
I think a new process will begin after this video conference. We cannot know how far the state will go. I say this regarding my talks with the esteemed President and other officials: I am speaking with the “norm” state. But behind it there are extra-norm forces. They exist within both the PKK and the state. You must approach sensitively and absolutely not allow sabotage.
We are meeting and discussing here. We are meeting with state officials. How long will these preparations take must be clarified. I told them too. It should not be prolonged. I say to the state as well. My request from you is: without prolonging it, do not get into things that will muddy the process and make it difficult; do what is necessary without stretching it over time. We are changing the paradigm now. We are discussing it with the comrades here. I sent you the introduction to the text; you must have received it.
Sabri Ok:
Yes, it has reached us, President.
Öcalan:
It’s seven articles. I am trying to finish it. When it is finished, I will send it. That will come to you too. It will be a Democratic Society Union. Do not define me with anything else. This is my program. Let everyone think what they will and say what they will. They will make their choice. My program applies to the other parts as well. But I am determined. Nor will we be like Barzani. We will not be a federal state or anything. On the basis of democratic unity, relations will be developed with them and with Talabani as well. Democratic-solution negotiations should be developed with Iraq and Iran too. Especially for Iran, convey my greetings to PJAK and say a democratic negotiation must begin. In Rojava, within its own local democracy, its own administrators should be elected. In Europe, work will proceed as well. Remzi, you are listening, right? Democratic Socialism of Society can be implemented most easily and appropriately in Europe. I also told Ilham—local democratic structure, I said.
Dear comrades. Some people say things like, “This congress saddened me; there is great pain and emotion,” and so on. Frankly, I felt no such thing. I did not feel sorrow. I was not emotional. Nor will I be. I founded it myself; I am ending it myself. I founded it 52 years, 1 month and 10 days ago. Now I am developing a new union, that is, the Democratic Union System. There was a program in Volume 5—that is, in my book. There is also the text I sent you and there is more in the new political report, and there will be more. You will have it in your hands. You will make your rejections and additions.
For now, I state these.
I want to end with a slogan: “Insistence on humanity is insistence on socialism.” I have said this before. I said it when real socialism collapsed. I said it at a time when everyone panicked and belief in socialism weakened. Real socialism leads to defeat; democratic socialism leads to victory.
Öcalan: I seek support from Turkey to democratize the Middle East
Sabri Ok:
We are concentrating. We are trying to understand. Will there be a negotiation process? How will it work? How will the democratic negotiation process proceed?
Öcalan:
I understand—let me elaborate. The one-sided initiative of the past is over. Enter into dialogue with Iraq, Iran and Syria and develop it. Develop negotiations with them on the basis of democratic unity. I am developing this with Turkey as well. This is not sufficiently understood. You approach with statist molds. I raised hell in the working group today. There are three forms of governance: state governance, power/authority governance, and a democratic form of governance. We will only be governance, because governance is democratic. Our understanding is an understanding of governance—democratic governance. We will take that as essential. Indeed, we will be only democratic; we will not be “power.” Let me repeat: imposing this on Iran, Iraq and Syria is worth gold. We are proposing this to Turkey too. We will open the Middle East to democracy. For this I will seek support from Turkey. A democratized Turkey can lead this program. We will impose our democratic units on the state.
Comrade Sabri:
Can the Leadership himself conduct these talks? There are problems in Syria, Iran and Iraq. Can the Leadership step in for these?
Öcalan: We do not want to govern the state together; we want democracy
The President:
You will explain your own democratic union to the states. You will wage its struggle. The struggle style of the Democratic Union is different. It cannot be a part of the state. Syria is a state. Turkey is a state. We are not against them. We will ask the state not to touch the democratic unions. We will not do “statism” against the state. You do not understand this. An agreement with Sharaa is an agreement to run the state together. That is not what we are talking about. Ilham Ahmed must understand this and convey it correctly.
Our understanding of democratic society is also the most effective defense against fascism.
Ilham Ahmed:
Em dixwazin pirsgirêkên xwe çareser bikin bi Şarra re. Lê ew dibêje Tirkiye tesîr li ser me dike û destûrê nade em çareseriyê pêş ve bibin.
(We want to resolve our problems with Sharaa. But he says Turkey is pressuring us and does not allow us to move forward with a resolution.)
Öcalan:
I didn’t fully catch that. I did not understand. Let me have it briefly in Turkish.
Sabri Ok:
Let me explain. She says: While we are talking with Sharaa and trying to solve the problems, obstacles are being put in the way. She speaks of Turkey’s pressure.
Öcalan:
I will speak with the authorities in Turkey. I have explained these things; I will explain them. There will be no haste. We will solve this matter with a united effort.
I speak openly, and I say to you openly as well: For me, establishing a Democratic Republic is more valuable than establishing a Kurdistan.
Minutes of the teleconference Abdullah Öcalan held with PKK cadres
Sabri Ok:
From our perspective there is a multi-option ground of relations. There are the state and organizations, and forces. They want to develop relations.
Öcalan:
(The President interrupted.) I understand. You are saying multiple options and relations. Many options. But you remember Gaza. You remember Ukraine, don’t you? You know what was brought upon them, don’t you? Many forces gave support and then you know how they were left in the lurch, don’t you? Ilham is skillfully developing relations. That is important. You can develop relations; I cannot object to that. You will take responsibility for them. I am not saying do not develop relations. But you will calculate the consequences yourselves. You understand, comrades Sabri and Remzi, don’t you?
Today I am happy. Because I have shed my burden; I am handing it over to you. I also have new promises, new goals.
Remzi Kartal:
With the call of the century, as an organization and as a people we are clear. The problem is with the state. They said: You make the call to the PKK; then steps will be taken; then hold the congress and steps will be taken that way. The state’s foot-dragging without taking steps arouses suspicion…
Öcalan:
I understand, dear Remzi. I know you and I know the state. The Apo before you will not do crude work. I am living here by distilling the distilled essence of 27 years of life. I focus here every day. The people trust me. No bad work will come from me.
I also hope the state knows me this way. I am holding talks with the state. I think they understand me. I think they will take the necessary steps.
Sabri Ok:
But those in power do not seem that way. They do not give such an impression…
Öcalan:
I am meeting with the state. I have nothing to do with those in power or with parties. I am meeting with the norm state. Mr. Hakan is beside you. He is such a person. He is valuable. I hope you will have a peace meal in the times ahead.
Sabri Ok:
I want to give information. There was a request for a meeting with Barzani, but this meeting has not yet taken place. We have not yet received a response on this.
Öcalan: For 50 years I have kept Qandil and those in Syria alive; you do not understand
Öcalan:
The officials are there. Mr. Hakan is there. Let him know: I will make a proposal. I should meet with some of the Barzanis. This initiative is mine. This meeting should be arranged.
Sabri Ok:
If the Leadership meets, it will be effective. They will listen to you, not us. They will take you as the basis. It would be good for you to meet.
Öcalan:
I understand what you mean. Thank you; I value this loyalty. I do not need support; I reserve the support part. I am not exaggerating myself, but I am the one keeping you alive. I am the one keeping Qandil alive. I am the one keeping those in Syria alive and on their feet. You do not understand this. For 50 years Qandil should know by what it has been kept alive. You know how we have lived. You do not understand enough.
Sabri Ok:
We always understood the Leader late. We understood insufficiently. We are suffering for it.
Öcalan:
Why are you suffering? You are 60 years old. Hafez al-Assad did not understand; I told him “you will be finished.” I left and it collapsed. I say this to Turkey as well: for Turkey, this year is a year of disintegration. If it does not develop a solution, it too will face problems. I know what I am keeping alive. You have your own commitment. I respect that. But I know what I am keeping alive. You will be aware. You must understand correctly, implement correctly, and stand firm correctly. Hamili is here. I suppose you will exchange greetings. (Mutual verbal greetings took place.)
Today is a historic day. Yes, let’s continue. I will call it Qandil’s demagogy. The real Apo is before you. No one can impose anything on me. Neither you nor the state. Yes, is there anything else?
Sabri Ok:
As I said, we are trying to understand and implement. We are trying to understand. But we are waiting for a step from the state.
Öcalan:
I will criticize once more. You exaggerate. Do not speak like wretches. Look, I am here. I could meet every day, but I am not waiting for such a thing. We are not asking for anything. It is enough that the state does not obstruct. We should not expect more than this. In Turkey there is no one who understands democracy. I will teach them democracy. Democracy is not to take a share from the state. Self-security is your business. I do not want a single person to die. But you will ensure this.
Sabri Ok:
You had asked about our self-power. You mentioned it in the last meeting. Our self-power is our power to understand you and to resist.
Öcalan:
Bombing may continue. There may be attacks. You will protect yourselves. Will it be 3 months, 2 months? I cannot say. But democracy and peace cannot be achieved with weapons in hand. The democratic struggle is stronger than weapons.
Sabri Ok:
If what is necessary is not done, then no one will lay down arms in this situation. We will not lay down arms.
Dılar Sivas:
President, for the women’s movement to assert itself within the system of power, that is, the male-dominated system… It is understandable in this context that the Leadership assigns a pioneering role to the women’s movement in activating its strategy. Women have a greater potential than men to understand and implement this process.
Öcalan:
Yes. Women are more successful in the work. They are more hardworking and disciplined than men.
There is mutual goodwill with the state. We cannot remain enemies forever. In the past I would say it is forbidden to eat the state’s food. Now I say: No. Even if the state gives it, that is my share. I said I have my taxes and my labor in it. The state is mine. But the extra-norm state is conspiratorial. Yet we are transforming the state. I conduct politics knowingly in every respect. This is the change in the state with which we are in dialogue. Of course some things will happen. We will enshrine this in law as well. You are presenting a dreamy Apo. You think I don’t know.
Remzi Kartal:
As the people and the organization, there is no doubt about Leader Apo’s call. Confidence is complete. The problem is that the state is not taking confidence-building steps.
Öcalan: I am the one who brought Bahçeli to this line
Öcalan:
I even brought Bahçeli to this line. You have not understood this. I find your situation grave. Your approach shows this.
Remzi Kartal:
Our approach to you, to your freedom, is our approach to the process. The conditions for your free work and life are our condition.
Öcalan:
This will not do either. If you repeat this so much and act like this, the state will become obstinate and keep me here even longer. The General Staff had said: whatever you do, you will do it yourself. You may get out of here or you may die here. He was right. I will transform the state. I am determined.
Sabri Ok:
The guerrilla joined as the Leadership’s devotee. The generals keep saying “surrender, lay down arms.” This is unacceptable.
Öcalan:
I have been here for 20 years. I kept myself alive here. I lived like a soldier. I did not commit the slightest indiscipline. You do not know how to live there. Why did you not achieve more military success there? Practice self-defense to the end. Is there anything stopping you? But you did not show the ability to do this. Seeking refuge in America is not self-power. I have major criticisms. Do not expect puppet leadership from me. I will settle accounts with them all. With you and with Barzani. Here, the ones at the head of this were Hamili and Ömer. Now they are sitting meekly behind me. (Turning to them with a laugh.) They can speak. Go ahead, comrades.
Hamili Yıldırım:
We have taken much. We have changed ourselves completely.
Ömer Hayri Konar:
We understand your concerns. The basic perspective here is this: do not change the state, change yourselves. Rely on your own self-power. Existence is not possible otherwise.
Öcalan:
This is very important. To create oneself and to be able to secure one’s existence and being… Comrade Remzi knows. The center of existentialism is Europe. Veysi, what do you say?
Veysi Aktaş:
It is a process of recreating and rebuilding oneself.
Öcalan:
Exactly so. Self-construction. This is the language and essence of the process.
Remzi Kartal:
There are international, internationalist participants. There is participation in your paradigm from many countries. They send their greetings.
Öcalan:
(The President interrupted.) I send my greetings to them all. I dedicate to them the saying “Real socialism leads to defeat; democratic socialism leads to victory.” Convey this saying to them in my name as well: “Insistence on humanity is insistence on socialism.” Give my regards to Ertuğrul, too. Let him deal with that matter. That will be your task. Is Ilham saying anything?
Ilham Ahmed:
President, the comrades send their greetings.
The President:
I will speak with you at length another time. Greet everyone; I will see you.
Comrade Ilham:
Then we will talk; greetings and respects.
